Where do you think complementarian and egalitarian beliefs fall?
I think we are clearly complementarian. The Baptist Faith and Message is clearly complementarian. I think the BF&M 2000 — especially as it was amended in 2023 — becomes even more clear on our position on complementarianism. Not only that, I think the messengers have been clear on their position on complementarianism by voting [out] three churches that are not in friendly cooperation with us because of this egalitarian position that they may have. So, I think the BF&M 2000 is clear. Where we’ve been unclear in the last couple of years is how do we adjudicate that? How do we handle the BF&M 2000? Do we do it from our governing documents? Or do we do it a different way? That’s been some of the lack of clarity for us. But the clarity is that we are complementarian and that we do consider these things to be vitally important to how we want to plant churches and where we want to send them.
What was your position on the Law Amendment (regarding complementarianism)?
I voted for the Law Amendment twice, and then last year we re-ran it with the Law-Sanchez Amendment. I voted for that as well. And the reason is because … it’s been run three times. I voted for it all three times … [though] I can understand why people have a little bit of uncomfortableness with us putting these kind of things in our governing documents when they’re clear in our confessional documents …
What’s the difference there?
The difference is like your bylaws and your confession of faith. And most churches don’t intermix those. [The] bylaws are just how you operate; the confession of faith is what you believe. [So the amendment was] to put that in the bylaws. So now [we’d] have only women pastors in the bylaws, while it’s already clear in the confession.
The reason was that we have a Credentials Committee that we’re trying to instruct on what is in and out, and what are the boundaries we’re going to draw. So we were trying to instruct them. The reason why I voted on it all three times is because that’s what we believe. And so, if we have a Credentials Committee as it’s set up right now, I want to give them as much clarity as I possibly can give them. So, I’m voting for it. I want to make sure they know. That’s why I supported it all three times.
I would support any kind of language that would help give more clarity on this, but I also want to understand where the messengers sit on it, and I don’t think those who voted against it are egalitarian. I think they’re just having a difference of philosophy as to where this should fit, whether it’s in our governing or in our confessional documents. I think our BF&M 2000 is absolutely clear on the issue. We are a complementarian view, especially of the pastoral role and pastoral office. The problem has been, how do we adjudicate that? I’m complementarian, by the way. I agree with it 100 percent.
Is there anything you hope to change in the SBC through your influence?
I hope to change our focus. I think the last several years, we have gone from focusing on our priorities to focusing on our problems. And I think that we’ve gone through a difficult season, really, in the SBC — but it’s not any more difficult than any time in the past. There have always been problems that we have, and we have to deal with — and we have to answer, we have to find solutions for …
I always say cooperation is not easy. Anytime you cooperate together, you’ve got to work through things. But the purpose of cooperation is not so you can always be working through your problems. The purpose is so you can focus on your priorities together. Either you focus on your priorities, or you focus on your problems. I don’t think you can do both. And I think our focus has been on our problems. That’s not to say we don’t have any. We do need to work through them.
But it becomes harder and harder to work through your problems when all you do is focus on your problems. When you recognize that we have clear priorities that are ours, and we want to focus on those, then it gives us more energy to focus on our problems because we are striving to reach our priorities.
And so, I want to change our focus. I think our focus has shifted to our problems. I want to change it back to our priorities. Let’s press the gas, as I say, on the Great Commission. Let’s remember again why we joined together, to reach the nations, plant churches, and train pastors. That’s why we do it. Let’s set our priorities back there.
Now let’s deal with these other things as they come along, and we deal with them in such a way so we can get back to these priorities. So, we focus on the priorities. And when I say get back, I don’t mean that we’re not [focusing on the priorities]. That’s the thing, in the last several years we have been accomplishing the work we joined together for — but most people are looking over here at the problems and not looking over here at what’s going on. I just want us to focus again on what we do together and do well, really well.
What do you think it will take to get people’s focus off the problems?
That’s a great question. I don’t even know if it’s possible. One, it’s a lot of prayer and the Lord’s work. But two, it’s handling things, I think, in a humble, faithful way to try to say, “You know what? We’re going to work through this,” but we work through it in a way that we show our care for one another. I think that part of the focusing on the problems causes us to draw distinctions, put everybody in a camp, try to raise up an idea that we’re working with our enemies. So we don’t see them as brothers and sisters, we see them as enemies. Therefore, focusing on the problems becomes drawing lines against people who are fellow believers, and we don’t have those [same] lines drawn in the BF&M or any other place.
They just become niche things. I want us to focus again … on our priorities, so we don’t see everybody that may see some things different as enemies, but we see them as brothers that we can try to work together with.
I think if I can just change the tone, [it can] change the climate a little bit to where we can speak to these things with joy, with conviction, and with an understanding that we’re trying to work together on the same team.
Do you think wider culture, worldly culture has played an influence on how people within the SBC treat each other?
We have to admit that anything outside of us creeps into us if we let it. I do think the rhetoric of pressing everything to the extreme over the last couple years has hurt us in working through our problems together, because we press everybody to the farthest reaches.
Where do you think nuance plays a role in cooperation?
Southern Baptists don’t do nuance really well. Like I said, by pushing the culture to the extremes, that doesn’t allow for any kind of nuance. You don’t read anybody with any charity. They may see something differently for a justifiable reason, but you don’t allow differences because you think that anything different from you is wrong.
And part of that is part of our problem with the female pastor issue. Our convention is not rampant with egalitarians. In fact, I know of no egalitarian in our convention. We are a complementarian convention. We disfellowshipped, or did not consider in friendly cooperation, three churches [Saddleback Church, Fern Creek Baptist Church, and First Baptist Alexandria].
But to say that “women pastors” is this issue just bearing down upon us is to not see a little bit of nuance — that people differ in how they understand the governing documents versus the confession of documents, and how their philosophy works towards this, and what is their practice. I think that nuance is a helpful thing. You remain strict and stern upon the foundations of your faith and the doctrines in our confession. We hold fast to those, and we draw clear lines. But we also try to read people and hear people with charity.
What would you say makes a good SBC president?
One who can clearly articulate our convictions faithfully and stand strong by them. One who can focus us on the task before us, in the Great Commission, and focus us in our work together, and why it is that we cooperate. One who can encourage along the way, with joy and humility, the pastors and leaders within our convention to create a culture of the fruit of the Spirit.
That would be what I would hope a good president could do. One who’s ready to deal with the problems that come up in a way that honors the Lord and speaks in such a way that testifies to the convictions, as best he can, of Southern Baptists.
What are three characteristics that you would want to be known by as the president?
I haven’t thought about three characteristics, [but] one, I want to be known by my convictions, Southern Baptist convictions, convictionally Southern Baptist. I would want to be known by my joy — like a happy, joyful warrior for the gospel. Theres’s no greater thing we get to do than to serve the Lord and honor Him. And so, carrying that with joy, convictional joy, would be clear. Then I’d want to be known for my desire to advance the gospel into the deepest and darkest places in the world — a missions heart to take the gospel and go farther with it than we’ve ever done before. A champion, if you will, then, for [taking] Christ and His gospel to the nations.
How do you hope to honor and please the Lord through this role if you get it? How do you personally see this as a way for you to honor the Lord?
I think, ultimately, it goes back to “Much has been given, much is expected.” I feel like the Lord has blessed me in so many ways, and He has used Southern Baptists to bless me in so many ways. I want to honor the Lord as a steward who doesn’t take that and shrink back from it, but steps into it and tries to continue the work that we do together for His glory.
To honor the Lord, to me, comes from one who wants to consider the blessings of God and live my life in such a way that honors Him … take what He’s given me, take all the investments Southern Baptists have given to me, and realize that I have a duty in some ways. And [that] I use duty in the best possible way … a faithful duty to carry out this work … because this is what’s shaped me and molded me and guided me.
Read part one here.